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Debate on the Use of Creative Commons Licenses
Sat, 07/03/2009 - 3:28pm — Matthew Davidson
I've been meaning to write about this subject in stanzas of more than 140 characters at a time, but in lieu of me getting my act together and making time to do so, here's the text of an enjoyable debate of sorts I had with cashmusic and others on Identica, reproduced here under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license.
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freemjd
Unwanted noise: bands releasing demos on !Jamendo with hopes of getting a conventional record deal, & no intention of using !cc thereafter.
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cashmusic
@freemjd An interesting point. Though it still points to a positive use of !cc for artists, which hopefully leads to more !cc later...
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cashmusic
@freemjd Not unlike open-source and closed dev side-by-side for a programmer. !cc releases can complement more closed "traditional" works...
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freemjd
@cashmusic I really don't want to discover the shareable !cc tip of an unshareable iceberg of music from an artist.
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freemjd
@cashmusic Would rather encourage artists to drop the economics of scarcity completely for libre digital distribution. !cc
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cashmusic
@freemjd Totally respect your viewpoint. Just think its a shame that later non-cc work should invalidate the previous releases.
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ryanprior
@freemjd depressing that you would poo-pooh artists who make !cc part of a mixed license scheme. Whom does it benefit to demand orthodoxy?
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freemjd
@ryanprior Making fans criminals, losing their most effective distribution channel, won't benefit artists. !cc #BY-NC should be a minimum.
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cashmusic
@freemjd I'm not a fan of artists using !cc solely as a gimmick, but I think it's great/vital to encourage !cc use in mainstream music
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freemjd
@cashmusic Problem is !cc is a partial solution. "Here's some licenses, use one or more or none." They are not a free culture advocacy org.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Philosophical difference. To me that's a bonus creating flexible solutions for artist sustainability.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Love and fervently support !cc, but I can't see the value in enforcing an all-or-nothing endgame on an artist and their life's work
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freemjd
@cashmusic I think for musicians "mixed licensing", !cc #NC, is the last gasp of the 20th c. How many people still use shareware v. #GPL?
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cashmusic
@freemjd True, but how much #GPL code finds its way into advertising selling SUVs or endorsing politicians? #NC serves a valid purpose
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cashmusic
@freemjd I also think the software analogy needs to be extended to include developers paid to work on closed source but contributing to OSS
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freemjd
@cashmusic !CC #SA more precisely targets these undesirable uses than #NC. How many advertisers would want their entire ad copylefted?
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cashmusic
@freemjd I think both are valid. Sharing your art shouldn't mean losing commercial control. Embracing BY-SA is great, but not the only path.
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freemjd
@cashmusic Everything I do is #GPL. The cost of not being able to re-use work done for hire is so great.
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freemjd
@cashmusic Worse for a musician who loses control of part of their back catalog because they sold "rights" to somebody else.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Control of masters is a major issue. But if anything, NC protects an artist from seeing their work turn up on an unauthorized comp
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cashmusic
@freemjd And we're totally agreed about #GPL and reuse of work for hire. Everything we do is #AGPL or #BSD for that reason and more.
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zotz
@freemjd, for me, if it is Free, it is not unwanted noise despite this issue. !cc !jamendo but if it has #NC then I agree
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freemjd
@zotz Often I've found artists on !Jamendo, raved about them publicly, they sign with a label, pull their music from Jamendo, no more !cc
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freemjd
I would like a simple unambiguous way for artists to tag their work to say they believe in free culture. !cc ain't it. !Jamendo ain't it.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Pulling music after the fact is lame. That's the nice thing about CC's sharing — you're still free to share. (not the same, but...)
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cashmusic
@freemjd Until the public embraces drastically new funding models for artists a blanket statement would starve full-time artists.
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cashmusic
@freemjd So what's *wrong* with a !cc license on some-not-all works as an endorsement of at least a more free culture?
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freemjd
@cashmusic RIAA's argument? A tiny, tiny minority of artists are full-time artists. The rest already would starve without other incomes.
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freemjd
@cashmusic The social cost of not having at least !cc #BY-NC outweighs the benefit to a very small number of artists.
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freemjd
@cashmusic This is guesswork and intuition, as are the RIAA's numbers. :) But the burden should be on those wanting to restrict freedoms.
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cashmusic
@freemjd A tiny minority maybe, but not a tiny number. Loads of A2IM artists, etc. Should they be forced to RIAA labels or a second job?
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cashmusic
@freemjd Many (many) indie artists are FT musicians and indie labels are pushing towards more liberal licensing...
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cashmusic
@freemjd I'm arguing *for* !cc BY-NC as a vital artist tool. Though I still believe the artist should have the right to choose any licensing
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freemjd
@cashmusic Anecdote: Friend in a successful indy band. First $ they made on recordings: when dumped by their label, sold old stock at gigs.
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cashmusic
@freemjd (Sorry to pepper you.) I think !cc NC&SA work wonders balancing artist rights & listener rights while restricting corporate abuse.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Sadly live/merch are the big $ draws now. But good indie labels/bands are learning new models and !cc will play a big part in that.
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cashmusic
@freemjd To sum up, I love the idea of free culture but I feel we need to embrace a progression towards it or risk losing valuable art.
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cashmusic
@freemjd It's supposed to do both; ensure that creative works can benefit their creators and society. The !cc NC&SA clauses do exactly that
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freemjd
@cashmusic Why sadly? I can't see anything but midi cover bands at my local pub. Free distribution is audience-building for real bands.
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freemjd
@cashmusic Summary: shareware culture is a dead end we need to abandon in order to get the full benefit of 21st century free culture.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Sadly only because of the lack of options. (And because gigging enough to make a living is damn hard/lonely work...)
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cashmusic
@freemjd Totally agree about free distribution, just think an artist should set terms, especially since listener rights are strong with !cc
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freemjd
@cashmusic I'd go to more gigs (& gladly pay a cover charge) if I had a way of knowing in advance I was going to like the band.
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cashmusic
@freemjd Yeah. Bed here. But one last point: music isn't software, and it was never shareware, it's art. Different industry, different rules
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freemjd
@cashmusic Yes, I don't argue that #NC-only is unethical (as with software). I think artists dropping #NC will benefit more long term.
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